Fighting for myself

I grew up hearing the simple expression: He can dish it out, but he can’t take it, and many times I’ve looked at my husband and thought of those words.  More accurate in his case would be, He can dish it out, but he won’t take it.  One time when we were in an aftermath winding down discussion from an episode where he’d been hurtful, I asked him (in one of my many appeals to awaken a conscience), “Tell me the truth.  How long would you tolerate it if I treated you like that?  Would you even put up with it at all?”

He replied, “Probably not.”

(When someone tells you who they are...)

There have been those countless times over the years where I’ve been left in a confused, demoralized puddle, and felt like gum that was scraped off his shoe.  I’d feel like just a worthless eater, that my survival was dependent on his inexplicable wish to have me in his life.  I’d ask myself and him if he loved me, and why he loved me.  In the darkness, I couldn’t see why anyone would love me, and then I’d feel desperate gratitude that for some reason he cared about me.

There were times of sitting in a fetal position, rocking and crying, and feeling numb despair.  Most of those times he would behave as though absolutely nothing was happening,  while I’d look at him with the eyes of a soul dying.  There were also those times when I sat on the edge of a bed with tears gone silent coursing down my cheeks, involuntary tears that betrayed my intent to move beyond being hurt.  The silent tears would also be seen and ignored by him.  As though I were just filing my nails, or sorting socks. 

I don’t know how to explain the confusing numbness when you’re given the wordless message of being nothing.  This was what I’d come to.  I wasn’t always like that!

For many years, he dished it out without rules, without limitations, and without  boundaries.

In the very beginning of our marriage, I used to fight back when he behaved badly, hurting, ignoring, punishing, withholding or lying.  In the early days, I’d rise up with fire in my eyes, outraged, with words of protest, and stood at the brink of leaving.  Oh, so close to walking away more than once, when he’d revert so completely that the other person seemed like a bad dream. 

It was as though he’d been under the influence of some bad drug or episode, but now the real him, the caring, interested, loving him was back to stay.  I had no way to know that the enmeshment and trauma bond was growing with steel webs below the surface.  His seeming penitence, reaching for me, pulling me to him, his need and renewed affection, were even more powerful when I was emotionally bruised and vulnerable.

My fatal blindness was naive unawareness that my strength was young, it was finite, and it was diminishing.

Our history went somewhat like this:  He would do or say something wrong, disrespectful, or crush a sane boundary.  I was extremely young and a spitfire, and would rise up to fight the wrong.  He would do something totally out of the bell curve that would emotionally traumatize me; but back then, even those extreme behaviors didn’t knock the fight out of me. 

Finding out I was pregnant changed all that for me.  I remember feeling as though an enormous adult weight had settled on my shoulders (rightfully so), and now I had someone else to consider in everything and at all times.  This new someone had a father, and I wanted her to have a good father.  I think I really believed that in time, he’d mature, learn, and grow like everyone else does.


As the fight weakened and dimmed in me, I slowly eroded.  Bit by bit, my hopes and dreams were sublimated.  I recognized his need to be in the spotlight, to be appreciated, to be respected, appreciated, and basically hold the power.  I really knew he needed to hold the power years ago.  By then I’d learned much more of his childhood, of his father abusing him and all the family, of feeling betrayed by his mother,  and so in a way it even made sense to me.  I think I thought that if I didn’t care about holding ‘power’ in the relationship, if he saw that someone unconditionally loved him, supported him, believed in him, and showered love and affection on him, that he’d eventually realize he was fighting an unnecessary battle to ‘control’. 

I thought he would grow in time, and I just needed to forgive him and love him.

One huge glitch was that I lacked the foundational and healthy love and care for self.  Of course, if that had been healthy within me, I would never have married him. I think I tried over and over to address that.  I can look back and see where I kept trying.  Instinctively I would strive to grow and mature, but repetitively I was punitively taught that my focus and my energy needed to be directed at him.  While I understood that on some level so many years ago, my younger self didn’t comprehend the price I was paying.  My younger self didn’t see what it would lead to.  I was so strong that I couldn’t comprehend myself as being what I eventually became.

I made efforts to be happy outside of my marriage, and outside of my relationship with him.  It was difficult to do that when my being happy seemed to be something he was driven to sabotage.  My success at anything was resented, and he seemed driven to diminish or ignore it, and sabotage whatever I’d found to succeed at or whatever made me feel happy and hopeful.  Whatever gave me strength.

Even when diminishing me meant that he would lose out somehow.  I couldn’t get him to see that a strong and happy me was only going to be mutually beneficial to him.

It all eventually led to a traumatic event that precipitated a breakdown for me.  It’s been a long, slow crawl back from that.  In truth, I’ve never fully come back from where I was at before that crash. 


Am I stronger or just harder?  I don’t know.  He can still hurt me, but when he does, the fight in me is alive again, like defiant flickers rising from resolute embers.  If he dishes it out now, he’s likely to share the pain he inflicts (because boundaries do seem painful and outrageous to him).  Maybe it’s from going through menopause.  Maybe it’s because so many of our kids are older, and I’ve seen more of the big picture.  Maybe it’s because it’s been toxic to my physical health, making me more dependent physically while my spirit finally regains independence.

Now I say, If you can’t take the heat, stay out of my kitchen. 

Pajama warrior with a bad knee that needs to lose weight and get a haircut, but the roar hasn’t been snuffed out. 

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23 Responses to Fighting for myself

  1. Exodus says:

    A very accurate and sad portrayal of the typical progression ( the only progress that occurs in PA relationships) of the slow steady decline in quality of life for anyone living with PA. I wonder when and if my roar will cease. My roar has certainly been muffled in recent years. I too have wondered if menopause didn’t play a role in that. I seem to have lost so much of my energy to fight back. It takes too much energy to argue and fight and I also know that it’s pointless- leading to no resolution or progress of any kind. Wisdom of menopause?

    I have asked my husband how he would feel if I treated him the same as he treats me but he never answers. He just retreats into his own world when I confront him and put him in the hot seat.

    It seems so cruel and unfair that our sincere compassion for our husbands could be so ineffective in having some sort of positive influence on our husbands. I remember friends telling me before we married that my husband would change after we were married and especially if we had kids. Oh yea, right sure! Please. I knew that wasn’t true but still I hoped because I didn’t want to be Debbie Downer.

    Change? Yeah, right. Obviously our President hasn’t been married to a PA before – If he had, he would have chosen a more realistic platform for his campaigns.


    • lonelywife07 says:

      “Change? Yeah, right. Obviously our President hasn’t been married to a PA before – If he had, he would have chosen a more realistic platform for his campaigns.”
      HA!!! Isn’t that the truth!?!? Hope and Change…BLAH!!!!


  2. lonelywife07 says:

    PJs…Man!! So much of what you write, I can see myself!
    I never lost myself in all these years, except when he had his affairs….I’ve always been a strong woman, and even when I’ve stumbled at those times, I’ve never let PA Man get me down for too long!
    His last affair though, it pretty much did me in for about a year and a half….I became a weak, needy woman….and I hated myself!
    But I’m back stronger than ever now…and I don’t feel the guilt that I always felt in the past, for not forgiving him right away, etc…He doesn’t deserve my forgiveness, and has done nothing to earn it, so why should I beat myself up over not handing out my forgiveness like candy??
    I’m forging my own path to happiness now…I just wrote about it on my blog!
    I’m “lucky” I guess….PA Man hasn’t been the type of PA to sabotage me when I have outside interests…He’s more the type that just wants to be left alone, make no demands of him, and he’s happy!
    I think that’s why I never realized he was PA…Over the years, I was so involved in activities at church, or with my kids and family, I never noticed or cared that he wasn’t that involved with it! PA Man would always just go with the flow…and never say anything!
    Now, what he was thinking about it all…who knows? THAT’S another story! HA!
    Anyway, I’m so happy you’re getting your ROAR back!!
    I think that in order to survive this PA lifestyle, we HAVE to be stronger than most women, and not easily beaten down….yes, we do feel like that at times, but we HAVE to get back up and keep going, like you said, get that Roar back!
    Passive aggressiveness is a Joy and Happiness thief….I’ve decided I’m not letting this behavior steal from ME anymore!!


  3. marsocmom says:

    Wow, PJs! I am so glad that you are pushing back. Everything I have read says that we need to call them on their behavior. Even through all your suffering, I see a strong mom who raised some really great kids. And now that our kids are older, there is a new freedom we have that says, “I really don’t need to put up with you anymore, so back off.” I’m so sorry that it came down to something so traumatic that it broke you…Keep fighting your way back, and we’ll be here for you.


  4. Fern says:

    I have to admit that the many long years of swallowing, suppressing and numbing my rage, pain, confusion and bewilderment in the face of his crazy-making Narc/P.A. behavior have given me severe anger-management issues here in my ‘old age’ (I’m nearly 50). Nowadays, when I feel his antics starting to cross the line into unfairness, irrationality, unreasonable-ness, or gaslighting, it triggers incredible rage that rises up in me like a volcano, an energy that I’m powerless to temper anymore. My blood pressure immediately shoots up, my heart starts to pound, and… if pushed far enough I *WILL* flip out on his ass. No brakes. I just so, soooo pisssed. At him. I’m not proud of this ‘new’ angry me — it isn’t pretty, and isn’t how I want to present myself AT ALL (picture something out of The Exorcist 😉 ). I would prefer to be above it all. Plus of course I’m sure it doesn’t help my case in his eyes either (although interestingly, he DOES back down now in the face of my extreme anger, so…) — but, he has always made it abundantly clear with his contemptuous manner that he already thinks I’m a complete loser anyway, so not a lot to lose there. I’m really beyond caring what he thinks anyway (which is probably why I can’t contain my rage like I once could). It just boils down to the fact that I simply can’t, and wont, take his crap anymore….


    • lonelywife07 says:

      Fern, after I found out about PA Mans emotional affair…I had anger like that! Swift, hot, all consuming anger!!
      I mean REALLY!!!! After being treated like we don’t matter, that we aren’t important…what do they expect??
      In my case, I was so angry because FOR years I had homeschooled, dealt with chronic illness in two of our boys, put myself last…and then HE has the affair??
      He gets his ego kibbles from a low life loser, telling her what a terrible wife I am, and how badly I’ve been treating him?? Grrrrr!!
      I actually lost it one night and threw my plate, full of a beautiful salad I had just made, at him….I missed, Ugh…and also wasted such a nice salad!! LOL!
      Yea, he backed down a bit after that!! LOL!


      • Exodus says:

        I’ll bet he just sat there looking at you like you’re the crazy one …” why are you so angry at me?”
        I love hearing about how other women have lost their cool with their husbands.

        I did chase my husband with my car through my neighborhood once. I even drove over people’s lawns trying to run him over! I was so angry at him because he “accidentally” let our dogs lose by leaving the gate open ONCE AGAIN ( pay back for another one of my confrontations) but even worse, lied about it by not telling me for TWO HOURS!! I live near a highway and all I could think about was finding my dogs out there run over. Oh my gosh, I’m raging just thinking about that day. I jumped into my car to go searching for my dogs but decided to run him over on my way out. He was running like a rabbit, weaving in and out of shrubs and cars. I think I could have actually run him over that day. Very scary!


        • newshoes says:

          They make us do what they cannot do, explode and rage and cry and scream and kick and push and shove… all of the things they would love do to but they cannot look like the bad guy. They make someone else do it.

          Liked by 1 person

        • lonelywife07 says:

          Exodus….LOL!! Seriously the image you’ve painted has me laughing out loud!! That’s hysterical!! LOL!


    • Exodus says:

      Fern, I too have experienced that kind of rage. It’s a terrible feeling-like you can’t even stand being in your own skin. I have raged many times with my husband but all I end up doing is giving my husband ammo to call me an abusive wife.

      Last winter I had a well-warranted raging episode and I took an entire box of mason jars and threw them one by one at the gears of my husband’s bike that was hanging in the garage. My husband was standing near the bike. I kept throwing them, aiming at the gears and they shattered into a gazillion showering pieces. I even thought to myself how I would regret dealing with that cleanup for years to come. Nonetheless, I actually enjoyed being able to throw those jars. I really believe these types of episodes are a form of temporary insanity and I think it was healthy for me to release my anger!! In hindsight, I could have hurt my husband or even blinded him. I don’t like getting that angry and behaving in such a manner and as we all know, they will get us back for that too!


    • newshoes says:

      I understand Fern, it happens when you’ve been worn down by the pa person in your life and you can never resolve any issues, they are always there left in the back of your mind. It’s like just compounding everything into a cage and nothing can move either up down or sideways. I explode too now, which I hate myself for after because it’s not me. I feel terrible and I have to walk away otherwise I may actually hurt him. It’s not a pretty picture. I try to not let him bait me anymore, but he still manages to do it once in a while. Grrrrrr I hate those days.


  5. Exodus says:

    PJ’s I thought about this post this morning during an episode with my husband. He broke a part on his trailer hitch and needed to get it repaired. He said that he was going to take it to a guy that works for one of our suppliers and not our usual mechanic. The employee is a part time mechanic that works on the side from his usual job at the supplier. I am good friends with the owner of the supplier but even so, I would not expect one of his employees to service MY equipment on his clock. My husband could not understand my reasoning so I asked him, ‘ How would you feel if someone pulled up to one our jobs and asked our employee to work on their car during our business hours? He just looked away and down at the floor and walked out of the room. ME ME ME, NOW NOW NOW. He’s an overgrown egocentric toddler which makes him an adult narcissist.

    I had another incident this morning as well. A roofer is going to be here at 9am to inspect our roof. We’re having some issues with plaster and drywall cracking in our ceilings near roof vents. Anyway, I had to clean up around the house because I’ve been so busy with work that things got really messy around here. So, I got up did 3 days worth of dishes, 2 loads of laundry, cleaned the bathroom and had to move a few things in the attic. My husband says, ‘ What is wrong with you? Why are you acting this way? You were so nice yesterday and now you’re back to your usual mean self..what is this now, I only get one day of you being nice? ”
    HUH??????????? Oh my gosh, I almost lost it. Those are the statements that I have made to HIM in recent months ( remember how I wrote about how temporarily changed for the better a few months ago?). How does anything I was doing indicate that I’m angry or mean? I wasn’t rushing around acting like a martyr. I was just doing what I usually do and maybe with a bit more energy since I still have to do my hair and brush my teeth and get dressed AND also handle other business matters before the work day begins. I just looked at him and very calmly told him that I don’t like people coming into my house when it’s in shambles or dirty, etc.. – especially the bathroom. There were dirty hand prints on the walls and sink and my husband loves to urinate all over the floor which I have to clean up every day. Granted, I just scrubbed the bathroom 4 days ago from top to bottom but as soon as my husband comes home he deliberately dirties up anything that he notices I have cleaned. He told me that other people have filthy houses so I shouldn’t care. I told him that I’m not other people and that I do have my very own sense of pride and character that doesn’t fluctuate minute to minute based on any unrealistic assumptions I may have about others. ” He’s just a roofer”, he said. I said, ‘ Yep, but that doesn’t mean he he’s a bum who doesn’t deserve respect. Are you suggesting that everyone who works in the building trades lives in squalor with poor hygiene? I know that is not true. I also know that you are the only man, besides your father, that I’ve ever known who was comfortable being a slovenly bum. ” What does my father have to do with this?” , he said. ” It has everything to do with this because you chose to grow up to be just like him in every way….you became the man that you have always feared and hated with a passion. Hope you’re happy.”


    • GainingStrength says:

      Oh yes Exodus, the using your words against you while making them sound like they thought them up all by themselves! One of the most irritating (okay there is too many to say one of the most, excuse me) things he does. He also started reading books to supposedly help himself, but we know that’s not true. He reads those books to find something to use against me. Yep, I’m the verbal abuser now. You see our 37 year marriage didn’t start until 18 months ago when I started realizing what was happening to me. He bases everything on the 18 months, we can’t discuss the past unless it fits his agenda at the time. Another irritating recurring thing he does. I can’t quote my book (he doesn’t like (that’s putting it mildly) Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft, “you read one book and you think you have me diagnosed!” LOL), but he can quote books he has just glanced through. I let him read Why Does He Do That? and I believe he couldn’t get through it all, but don’t worry he’s not like those guys because he isn’t an alcoholic or drug addict. He’s just a normal man! He actually told me that! LOL!

      Now with the divorce it’s “if we can just come to an agreement” which translates to do what I want and everything will be fine. Nope, nope, nope, not anymore. He threatens to leave (bye-bye), he threatens to cancel the cable, phone, etc. (go ahead). He threatens this divorce may last through next year (have you heard of compromise?). I just tell him threaten away I am not doing what you want me to do. In his mind, I am mean because he is just trying to get this over with and I am “fighting” with him (I haven’t fought with him since he filed.). He used to call me angry, bitter, mean, etc., but now he’s using argumentative and difficult. Words he hasn’t used in regard to me in 37 years. LOL! Did his lawyer tell him to be nice. LOL. Oops! He lost it today when he started ticking the things he was going to shut off on his fingers (another irritating habit) in a not so nice voice. LOL He’s also telling his family that I am bi-polar!

      Ladies, hang in there. Hopefully one day every single one of us will be free from this madness. I know my life will still have difficulties, but I will have the peace and sanity to think it through without him muddying my thoughts and making me doubt myself.


      • Exodus says:

        OH MY GOSH…….yes indeed, their oh so convenient selective memory and to imagine what you’ve dealt with for 37 years! I’ve only endured this for 20 which means that there is still hope for me! YAY!! My husband only remembers what he chooses to and when. Isn’t it just so ironic that we are accused of holding grudges when in reality if PA people did not harbor grudges they would NOT be PA!!!

        When I contacted the attorney that specialized in PA abuse, he and another attorney (mediator) told me that trying to get a divorce from a PA spouse was extremely difficult because they do everything to prevent it from happening- from missing appointments to constantly changing the terms of the divorce to changing their minds day to day or week to week. They told me that I should prepare to make a very swift and clean break by not having many demands and not to file for divorce until I am able to do that. It’s so sad that divorce is the only real solution to end the abuse. When I leave, I don’t ever want to see him or hear from him again. I will find every way I can to get off his grid.

        .before I forget, my grandmother once said to me ( about her daughter/my mother) ‘ well, she’s not an alcoholic or drug addict’ as if somehow that made everything else she did benign and tolerable. Isn’t it so bizarre how these people manufacture such ridiculous rationalizations for their insane existence?
        What’s interesting is that even though PA people and their victims may not be substance abusers, we all exhibit the same codependent relationship dynamic as users and enablers. My husband’s paternal grandfather was an abusive alcoholic and my maternal grandmother’s father was an abusive alcoholic. The trickle down theory really does apply in how toxic coping behaviors get learned and passed down from one generation to the next resulting in a lot of PA and enabling behaviors. My husband has the ‘addictive’ personality and I’m the enabler. i’ll bet most of us on this blog could identify the addicts and the enablers in their families. My husband’s devoutly religious family doesn’t use alcohol but they use food and religion as their substance.

        On a positive note, at least your husband picked up the books – I’m being facetious in light of the fact that my husband won’t read any self help books. My husband won’t even look at them. He won’t acknowledge any self improvement books at all whether they are for business management or psychology. The only time he even entertains a very slight interest in getting help is when he’s desperate because I’ve thrown him out or taken away all his access to our money. It’s just so pathetic that I live like this.

        Does bipolar mean that he thinks you are a bisexual polar bear?


        You hang in there too and don’t care what his family ( or anyone else) thinks of you. There were times years ago when I would get really annoyed that other people thought he was so charming and kind but I don’t care anymore. Let them have him.


  6. newshoes says:

    ” The silent tears would also be seen and ignored by him. ” Yup, same here. I would be curled up, unable to function or move for several hours so upset I was. I could sometimes even throw up and I consider myself more logical than emotional. However when someone pushes you hard enough, logic goes out the window. I would fight back too at the beginning, no one else treated me this way, so I didn’t accept it. Then I had kids, and overtime, it was easier to just let him “win” than to fight back because they would get upset and he basically wore me down over the years. I didn’t fight back anymore until I completely stopped talking, he would go on and on in thin air, I had no more emotions. I was nothing but a mere robot going about her day like a drone. Kind of like the Stepford Wives movie. He sense he was losing me, so he pushed my buttons further and further until I exploded. Then we talked for a long long time, we went to therapy, things changed slightly for a while, just enough to keep me guessing whether or not we would make it.

    I’m here to say that all went back to normal after a while, he even found news ways to get to me. I am stronger though for it, I understand why now I cannot make my pah happy. I never will. No matter how I feel about him and about us, nothing will ever change. I will never be able to trust that he will put my heart and soul first, it will be him first, his ego second and me last. Even if it means that he will lose it all. Sad. Very very sad.


    • GainingStrength says:

      newshoes I know what you mean by pushing buttons. My husband always says he is not pushing buttons, he doesn’t even know what my buttons are. He doesn’t want to hurt me. Have you heard that one? LOL I’ve heard that more than I love you in my marriage. Sad but true. I believed him for too long and now I just tell him he’s lying. But he keeps pushing and pushing trying harder and harder to make me go into a rage. Nope, hopefully I can keep this up.

      And you’re right, you will never matter to him.


      • newshoes says:

        Gaining – It’s a hard truth to hear and realize though. His actions speak louder than words you know. It doesn’t matter what they tell you or email or text you, if they choose to continue to abuse you with their pa shenanigans, their double standards, their double meaning, their underhanded comments, their line of questioning only made to destabilize you, they choose not love you, not to honor you ’til death do you part. Bottom line, for me no longer acceptable.


  7. WritesinPJ's says:

    Wow! The conversation here is really pretty incredible. Each one of your voices enriches this place so much. This is my favorite thing about having a blog. It’s coming into a room that’s a safe space to let my thoughts, feelings, and memories, have a voice. The best part? Is when you all come into the room and start conversing. Sometimes I want to cry with and for you, sometimes you make me laugh, and you always help me think more clearly. It’s healing. It’s inspirational.

    Two things stick out to me from reading through here:

    There are times you can be pushed, manipulated, provoked, violated, gaslighted, and abused to the point that the crazymaker you live with gets you to the flipped out point that you don’t recognize yourself.

    There are times you find your own words, feelings, protests, grievances, or even personal tastes associated with individual identity, parroted back at you. Even when it doesn’t really make sense.

    The first is something I’d like to make the next post about, and hopefully we all get some catharsis. The second happened just yesterday, but when I try to pull the words and specifics out of the fog, they elude me. Pretty sure it’s just a matter of time until he’ll do it again, so I’m going to try to not get fogged out next time.


    • newshoes says:

      I don’t know if it’s safe for me PJ, I have a feeling my pah found me writing on these blogs and is now using it to hurt me. He’s been making references to comments I write here. I’m glad for all of us though, we found each other 🙂
      I understand the fog too, I’m feeling kind of like that these days. “did he just say that or what does that mean, he did this, he’s so nice now, why, what will he want, when will he explode next, what’s his next move?” very cloudy in my mind right now but I feel like I’m playing chess. And I try to write it but the words just don’t come out. Then I have bad dreams because I can’t get rid of it so my subconcious takes over. Needless to say, I haven’t been sleeping.


  8. Seeing the Light says:

    I know what you mean, newshoes. I would say SO MUCH MORE if I weren’t suspicious that he is tracking my computer usage and figuring out what I’m reading and writing. I’m doing what I can to keep that from happening, but he is sneaky and he has violated my privacy before. He has used my thoughts to behavior-modify and to say things to our children in ways that make him look better and me worse in their eyes. (For the most part, thankfully, they don’t fall for it). On a side note, I believe, in general, they are very good at information-gathering and storing for later use, and that discussions that give off any appearance on their part of trying to work things out or communicate are very likely primarily ways to do reconnaissance regarding our current thoughts and feelings for their purposes, not for any sincere relationship improvement. With each encounter, I am actively and consciously watching myself as carefully as I can to not give him any more information for him to use later. I think I’m getting better at it! I engage him less and less and it is freeing.


  9. lonelywife07 says:

    I changed the password on my IPad…and I won’t give it to him! He’s not gonna snoop on me, but if he does somehow find my blog…oh well!
    Then he’ll really know how I feel, behind my bland, smiling face!!


    • lonelywife07 says:

      Oh, and my 2nd oldest son, who still lives at home came upstairs this morning and said, “Mom, does dad know the password for your IPad….he’s on it downstairs.” I told him, “Nope, I changed it!” My sons response? “Good!”
      He’s a smart boy, he sees what’s going on!
      And to be honest, I HATE that I have to do that, to ensure my privacy…But PA Man has snooped before, so he’s proven he can’t be trusted! And after I caught him at the bathroom door eavesdropping the other day…nope, not giving him another chance!


      • Exodus says:

        Lonely & all,
        Your browser may support a ‘privacy tab’ or incognito window of some sort that prevents your browsing history to be accessed. I use Opera browser and if I want a private tab/window then I just access it from the main menu icon in Opera.


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